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| Missing Husky anyone ? | |
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| Topic Started: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:48 am (3,987 Views) | |
| samng | Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:33 pm Post #76 |
FFK Captain
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Before you do that....maybe Deby can delete those swearing and cursing thingy on this person. I foresee that he/she might not take it well......Just a prediction that might or might not come through..... :P |
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| kiravh | Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:24 pm Post #77 |
The Icebox Guy
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Well ... they seem like pretty nice owners, polite, friendly and all. Btw I told them about the club already, just hope they actually drop by :lol: |
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| april | Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:14 pm Post #78 |
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Oh! Maybe time to delete the obscene posts about them! |
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| Booka | Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:26 pm Post #79 |
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hm.. i dun think it would be that easy to influence their mindset on breeding and the money involved.. afterall.. its a purebreed and when proceeded,most ppl actually says its such a waste to neuter a purebred when they could have actually gained alot of money outta it. They are normally those who do not see animals like we do. Its like an investment- a piece of thing for them. However, breeding is not all wrong. I believe if ppl want to breed, then they shd do it the right way. Give the dog a good life - space and shelter, good food, medical attention, exercise,no inbreeding, etc and not dump the dog once they become unproductive. |
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| Jancey | Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:20 pm Post #80 |
Arcticsong
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Depends what they want to breed for...to contribute good quality, good lines, good breed standard pups, from parents that have proved themselves in a show ring or working in harness. Or to breed any quality of dog to any quality of dog. Not caring where they go or to whome they go to, to simply put money in their pockets at some poor bitches expense of being breed from all the time. It's okay having all the health checks done, as I'm sure some of these breeders do, so that they can get more money for the dogs. But then alot of unscrupulous breeders will then breed these dogs more or less to death for the money. A good reputable breeder will do as you say it all properly. Health checks, will only use good proven linage sire and dam. Will keep a check on the dogs they sell, some of them for life. Will only use the bitch every now and again ( try to imagine being pregnant and giving birth twice a year as alot of puppy farmers dogs are ). A good reputable breeder will have a waiting list of people that want pups from them, and would never sell them out of a news paper, or a card in a shop window..or to petshops. A good reputable breeder will take back any dog / pup that is returned to them..as they have the space to be able to take them back if the owner no long can keep it. A breeder in it just because they see it as an easy way of making money, won't give a stuff about what happens to any of the pups they breed just as long as they have the money from them. Most of this kind of breeder also have very little to no knowlegde about the breed either, to be able to offer help and advice to owners that need any...they have simply bought the dogs...mated them and sold the pups. Or just approached someone in the street and asked them to mate their dogs, without knowing anything about the dog linage or health problems or if they have even been health checked. Jan. |
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| Booka | Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:42 am Post #81 |
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normally its the latter type of breeder. because a good reputable breeder will charge much higher for quality puppies where its rarely a concern here for interested buyers since all puppies(of same breed) look fairly similiar when they are young. and also, its hard to find a reputable breeder since all breeders will claim themselves reputable so there's no one to trust if there is no recommendation. Thus the few reputable ones are normally hidden. To most breeders (even those overseas) that to produce "only good proven linage" also means to inbreed the dogs(despite the dogs havin heavy health problems) because they believe this is the only way to create the best in the breed standards. This, further impose serious health concerns in the upcomin litters but so far, animal right activists have failed making any changes. Watch this.. very sad indeed-Pedigree Dogs Exposed(Part 1 to Part 6) Edited by Booka, Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:49 am.
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| filet0fish | Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:07 pm Post #82 |
aihm-too-sechxay
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Jan, i agree with you! and Carnea, UNFORTUNATELY, almost 90% of our local breeders are those explained by Jan known as "former". not the "latter" ones that you stated in your post. breeders who charges alot for their puppies are not necessarily the goods one! me & the girls (Nadia & Carol) have got to known this particular one who sells their puppies at nothing lesser than RM3500 (and 1 particular show-ring pup for RM6000). yes, the RM6000 one eventually did become a "Champion" in the "puppy" category, but all the RM3500 ones are from a so-called Champ who has been de-barked because he was way too noisy. the puppies that this de-barked Champ produced, most are returned to the pet-shops who sold them. not only do they NOT take responsibilities in taking the puppies back from the pet-shops, they just left them there. and how do i know? because the doggie-spa that i sent the girls to was one of the pet-shop victim! if you claim that most "reputable" breeders sell more expensive and behaves differently... sorry to say that in Malaysia... i've only gotten to know ONE reputable breeder. not like i particularly like that super snobbish guy, but he does a very very good job with his dogs and his pups. to wait for his GRs, you'll have to wait at least 6 months. if his waiting listing has less than 4 names, he will not start breeding. he's got a run for his dogs. and he's got a huge kennel all air-conditioned for his dogs. and his GRs are beautiful!! have a look at his website: http://www.clangan.com.my/index.htm my favourite of the lot is "Wind". and guess what... with all these snobbishness and arrogance, his pups are only RM2600 - RM3000. yes, i know it's a chicken and egg story. without them breeders, we won't have our kids now. without our kids, our lives are more miserable in many ways compared to what we have now. but if i were to encourage a breeding programme, it has to be with extensive knowledge and care about what one is getting him/herself into. 1) you need to know WHY are you breeding the dogs. for the money? for the lineage? for show? if so, who are you breeding with? is the dog or bitch of equilavent standards or better? again, why do you need to breed your dog?? 2) you need to know HOW are you breeding the dogs. "how to" here includes all the necessary tests taken to make sure that your bitch should have no difficulties in giving birth. PLUS, that all the puppies are going to be healthy puppies and not with flaws. do you know what you should do after your bitch gives birth? 3) you need to know to WHOM your puppies are going to. have you decided on who will eventually be bringing your puppies home? have you met them? have they shown interest? will they keep your puppies? i know it's difficult to tell a person by its looks and all. i understand. but at least the person should have some good vibes to you and your dogs and your puppies when you explain things and/or perhaps questions them on certain issues. 4) you need to know WHAT will happen to you and your puppies if your puppies are returned to you. have you made up your mind that you will keep the puppies? are you willing to house them forever when they are returned to you? or will you quickly find other means to house your puppies because you cannot afford to keep so many dogs under one roof? 5) what do you think a "reputable" breeder should do? |
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| Jancey | Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:08 pm Post #83 |
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Arcticsong
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Have already seen Pedigree Dogs Exposed..watched it when it was aired on tv over here at the time. Just because some of these breeders in some of the breeds are willing to do to dogs what they have done to make thme look "better " ..of which I personally think they look " bloody awful " and looked alot nicer in their original form..doesn't mean that all breeders and breeds have had this done. As for inbreeding...ALL breeds of dogs were inbred at first ...mostly because there just weren't the amount of dogs originally to be able to pick and choose..then when there were enough to be able to pick and choose MOST breeders then steered away from inbreeding. Breeders would inbreed to be able to get certain looks, and standard of dog, and in some cases it was also done to cope with certain faults or hereditory defects..I'll have to find out more info about that one for you. The reputable breeders will then breed out the inbreeding as too much inbreeding will cause alsorts of problems...heard of ..but didn't know the sibe..but one was born with half a brain through a puppy farmer continually inbreeding.. Most of the inbreeding you will come across is done from puppy farmers that couldn't give two hoops about what they are doing, they just want money. Most puppy farmers dogs are badly bred, usually end up with poor health..and in a heck of a lot of cases have temprement issues as well. A reputable breeder will of come away from the inbreeding or line breeding as it is known. Or only do it for a certain purpose and then breed away from it. Their dogs are all health checked, hip scored, healthy, good quality ( that doesn't mean to say that they will be champions in a show ring or in harness ..but good quality )., they are breed for their temprement as well. I don't know many reputable breeders that would want to think that the dogs they are breeding have temprement issues. They will always have them back or find the dog / pup a good home to go to..they take responsability for the pups they have bred. The pups will all be KC ( don't know what it is over there..but Kennel club registered ) and the papers are there waiting for you when you pick the pup up..in alot of cases the reputable breeder will also of have the first lot of injections done for you. They give help, support and advice when needed.. and they don't charge anymore money than the set amount that is is stated that a sibe pup should cost. Puppy farmers will charge less..because the dog has no papers...or they are badly bred..or just because they want the money and being cheaper will give them that. Some puppy farmers will / do charge high prices to unsuspecting people for their pups ..even those badly bred .. because the pup is black / white or red/ white and or has blue eyes...no dog is worth more just because it has blue eyes or any other colour of eyes or coat colour..these breeders convince people that that colour of coat or eyes is " very special "..load of crap. Some well known breeders breeding good pups will also be greedy, and try to charge more because the dog has champions in it's linage...they are soon discovered and most people avoid them..but not too many of them about. Reputable breeders don't mind paying out money to have pups registered and papers for them, have medical treatment and check ups done..they don't actually make much money from litters because of this...puppy farmers make loads of money because thats what they are in it for. So when it comes to inbreeding, the biggest culprets are the ones that are lining their pockets. Jan. |
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| Booka | Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:29 pm Post #84 |
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Pardon me.. yea.. was just scan reading so didnt focus on which part.
Now we know of a reputable breeder here for golden retrievers! and thats a very reasonable price to pay for indeed. altho the waiting period may be a lil long. I still dun trust breeders who claims they are reputable breeders. They may feed premium quality food and provide 24 hours air conditioning but just knowing that these pooches are kept 24/7 locked up in tiny cages stacked one on top of each other and debarked makes me sick. i know of one that does exactly wat Jan and deby said.. with all the health checks, KC, who, why, what, how, etc etc (all necessities) done together with the above said (high premium fd, 24/7 air-con, 24/7 locked up and debarked) however im confused if we can considered him a reputable breeder? claims he doesnt inbreed also
well, im not quite sure abt this as i had circulated feedbacks(from unknown owners) on those breeders i know of who claims to be reputable. probably it differs in countries Edited by Booka, Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:30 pm.
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| Jancey | Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:03 am Post #85 |
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Arcticsong
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Well I can't speak for breeders over there..but I can tell you that the reputable breeders I know over here in the Uk do not make a point or habit of inbreeding...and would be very offended if they thought that someone was saying that they were. And did I read in your thread that breeders over there keep their dogs / pups in cages stacked on top of one another..are you saying the reputable ones do as well...the RSPCA and animal rights people over here would have a field day with them...thats disgusting. Puppy farmers and inbreeding ..well, most are known for it. Jan. |
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| filet0fish | Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:08 am Post #86 |
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aihm-too-sechxay
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Jan... unfortunately, yes. some self-claimed reputable breeders do that. i've even met one who refuses to show us the pup's parents. when i insisted that i want to see the pup's mom & dad... he kindly named me a place so far away 1 would think 3 times to see them. still, me & Carol said not a problem. we'll go see the dogs. he conveniently said that he won't be free... and this bugger, was selling one of his pups for at least RM500 more than the other puppies from the same litter JUST BECAUSE the pup has what he claims to be "RED EYES". dumb ass! anyways, the GR-Gan fella, he doesn't stack his dogs up. they literally have their own room. it's a freaking bungalow for the dogs (not the humans - they live in a shack). i have to give it to him. and to wait 6 months... is NOT a long wait! |
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| Jancey | Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:26 pm Post #87 |
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Arcticsong
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Goodness...the trouble with people like those kind of " reputable " breeders is, that when someone has dealings with them as a "reputable " breeder, they then tar all reputable breeders with the same brush and think that that is what they are all like Unfortunately world wide, breeders will vary...but they aren't all the same. As I've said there are reputable good breeders and then there are puppy farmers. Will just add..reputable good breeders will also be able to show you both parents or if the sire lives else where, you can go and visit him..could be a long journey in some cases, and be able to show you the pedigree linage papers and health check papers. Jan. |
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| Jancey | Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:48 pm Post #88 |
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Arcticsong
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Carnea - I understand your concerns about some of these breeders, and especially some of the ones that class themselves as "reputable ". Judging from what I've read from the posts on here, I would be concerned about some of the so called "reputable " breeders over there. But unfortunately a fact of life is, that there are breeders like those all over the world, and they will all tell you they are "reputable " because they want you to buy a pup from them. Thats why in my opinon if you are looking or anyone else come to that, for a pup, of any breed, then you really need to do you homework on the breeders available. 1, How many litters do they breed a year, and how many times a year do they breed from the same bitch. 2, How old is the bitch they are using ( no bitch should be breed from before the age of two at the youngest ). 2, Do they ask you about your knowledge of the breed ( a good breeder or at least a better one, will want to know what you know about this breed..they will interview you ). 3. Can they produce proof of Hip Score and Eye tests, showing a good Hip Score and a clear Eye Test. 4, Do they have papers to show you of the pedigree of the Dam and Sire ( you can then research the linage of the Dam and Sire to check on health issues as well..and make sure they are pedigree..) 5, Do they tell you the bull shit of..these are more money because they are Red /White or any other colour coat..or have Blue or Amber or any other eyes( no dog is worth more because of markings or colourings ) 6, Do the dogs and pups look healthy, are they in clean conditions. 7. How knowledgeable are the breeders about the breed ( do your homework about the breed first and then ask the breeder questions that you already know the answer too ). 8, What kind of stock are the pups from. Good show stock, good working stock ( I know this can be a hard one for over there..but basically that they are not just two dogs put together for no reason other than money...so look for good quality..research dogs that are known in the show ring ). 9, Does the breeder have a waiting list of people that want pups from them..and I don't mean just a few monthes. So therefore not having to advertise in papers or sell to pet shops. I guess the list could go on..and I'm sure I've probably left some lists to look for off..but maybe someone else can come along and add to it. I do however feel that you have to be careful when you come onto a public forum and start to bash even the reputable breeders as well..the risk there is that if you do that, and someone looking for a first time pup comes on and reads this, that they will just think " well if the reputable breeders are all like this, then I might as well just go to anyone "..that could result in someone NOT going to a reputable breeder, or at least one of the better ones, and ending up buying a pup from a really bad puppy farmer instead, and trust me there are some notorious unscrupulous breeders of the worst kind out there. Some of the reputable breeders over here and in other countries, have acres and acres of land..they have huge secure paddocks for the dogs to run about in happily. They show or work or show and work their dogs. They have waiting lists of three years some of them for pups, because the dogs are such good quality..people queue up for them. They never advertise in papers or shop windows or sell to a petshop..they don't have to. They can tell you the history of their dogs, they are extremely knowledgeable and will always be there to offer help and support for the dog and owners..and the list could go on and on. There are also reputable breeders over here that don't have acres of land, but they still do everything that is for the best of the breed and dogs. Jan. |
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| samng | Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:52 pm Post #89 |
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FFK Captain
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To me....for whatever reason(s) a person is breeding, one should refrain from breeding those with genetic problems because their offspring will also develop the same genetic problems. It's a crime to do that. Maybe a Moron like these people should marry another Moron to see whether they can give birth to an Einstein..... :angry: |
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| Jancey | Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:16 pm Post #90 |
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Arcticsong
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I quite agree with you...unfortunately most puppy farmers and anyone else that breed with no knowledge, or very little and are only doing it for the money and not to improve the lines they have, don't care one little bit about genetic problems. They've mated the dogs ( any quality of dog ), the pups were born, and they've had the money for them. Thats the difference between good knowledgeable reputable breeders and those that are not. Jan. |
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